Nugget update

[Sandyb]

I will try to get this all out but first THANK YOU ALL. My Nugget is a very sick girl. Her coffin bone has rotate more and closer to coming thur bottom. The new shoes and the rubber in bottom have help. She has to have a new farrier than can deal with type of horse. She has white line (sorry but i am not real sure about that). She also was cked for thyroid will know tests on Monday.
She is off grain and grass from here on. I am going to have a side paddock cover in sand for her and increase her saw dust.

I am not giving up yet but my baby will not like living in a stall. She won't pee in her stall any way I have to let her out. Nikki also has that white line stuff and was check for thyroid also. She has no founder but i have been told no grain either. She can have grass .

I am not real sure what is going to happen all i know is my heart hurts so bad that i am not sure it will ever heal? What have i done wrong? Did i not do enough or did I do to much?

My pain is unbearable right now so thank you all for Caring.

And please keep the burning for nugget because she has a very long road ahead of her.

The two donkey boys did fine they will be sore and are very grumpy right now.

Sandy

[ejb1]

Hi Sandy,
Fist heard about your Nugget on the marestare board. You have many people praying for the right answer to help you and Nugget. Being the caregivers for animals is always a bit of a guessing game, the poor babies can't really tell us what's going on or what they need so we try our very best to do the best for them.
EJ

[spottedpony74]

Dearest Sandy. Please do not blame yourself. What is happening with Nugget is NO WAY your fault!! You and I know what happen with her. You saved her those many years ago. What you done at that time is why you still have her. She has given you many a happy memories. You have done more than plenty for you furry kids. Really Sandy how can a mom do to much for her kids? We can not. You have always done the best you have been able to do.
White line is nothing you have done or havn't done. With Nuggets problems getting white line is not a surprize. You and I was told those years ago that many problems for Nugget was going to come around sooner or later. This is later. Nikki is going to be ok for now.
Try dearest sister to take one day at a time. You and fur babies will stay in my prayers. I pray for you to find comfort in friends here on mare stare and with me right down the road
Love ya
Pony

[chrystalpaths]

This happened to my Treasure but she was merely 3. Your sweet Nugget has had such a long and loved life. Forgive me if I speak out of turn but I speak from deep care...look deeply into her eyes and ask her what she wants. Of course she wants to stay with you but imagine her pain. Do what your heart tells you, what she tells you. My heart breaks for you. Heather knows the agony I felt at letting my girl go she helped me more than she'll ever know. I hope our care and prayers help you also.

[barbw]

Prayers to you Nugget and to you Sandy
Whatever the decision is know the sweet Lord is there to guide you...and to keep you in his arms...

[deda]

Prayers to you,and your beautiful mare.God please be with her help her with her pain.

[Sherrie]

Thank you for the update on Nugget. I also wanted to mention if your vet didnt that she may get abcesses in her feet also. Then you will need to soak her feet in epson salt and we put a little glug of betadine in the water to.The mare we are treating gets them every time she gets her feet done because of the chance it her feet. Best of luck to you. Give Nugget a hug from me. I know how hard it is for all of you.

[Sandyb]

Thank you Sherry for telling me that i will keep an eye on those feet.

Nugget Had a lilfun in the sun. Not real happy with gettinno grass or grain. But she will be fine. I took her boots off for awhile to let her feet air out and whew boy did they smell she seem almost embarraed.

Thats to all that keep looking and to you that send me a messge. Your kindess has helped more than i can tell you all i can say it to all of you.

Sandy

[tonkasmum]

Sandy:

First off, I'm not a vet. So you're free to take my advice for what it's worth. But I've dealt with laminitis, chronic founder in my own horses a few times. We just got in November a Saddlebred that had foundered twice in all four feet... he's now 100% sound and on pasture 24/7.

The big danger with the concentrated feeds and pasture is the carbohydrate/sugar content. I don't know what hay you feed, but there is a concentrate feed that IS safe for laminitic horses. It's from Nutrena, it's called Safechoice. It's a high fiber, high fat/protein feed (and the whole high-protein makes them hyper thing is a MYTH - it's again, the sugars). But very LOW sugar/carb. You don't need to feed a lot - and I'm not sure how much a mini would require, but it will help supplement anything she might be missing from just a hay diet.

The abscesses form because of dead tissue - one of the big problems is that a horse has that HARD outside wall. So it has nowhere to go. You have two things you need to do - treat the abscesses that are there, and prevent new ones. To treat the abscesses that are there, I personally recommend using apple cider vinegar in water, instead of epsom salts. I've had better results with the vinegar. If any abscesses open on her foot where you can get to them, clean it up as good as you can, then take honey and soak a cotton pad with it, put it over the open hole, and wrap it up good. Change that once a day. Honey is sterile, and it is also a wonderful antiseptic.

To help prevent new abscesses, you need to prevent tissue death. 1. Get rid of the bloody shoes!!! Horseshoes in general prevent the horse's hoof from functioning as it was supposed to. Instead of being flexible and acting like a pump, the hoof is held rigid and cannot operate as efficiently as nature designed it to. A horse has five hearts, one in its chest and one in each foot. And what you need getting to that foot is blood. Going in and out. 2. To get that pumping circulatory action going again and get healing working, she needs to MOVE. (This is the part that SUCKS). She IS going to hurt, and you will feel like the biggest, worst mom in the world because you're making her walk and it hurts her. You can use painkillers, but shy away from Bute - it can be hard on the stomach and it also constricts blood flow - which isn't what we want. But I would recommend taking her for a nice, leisurely walk at least once a day. (I might say shy away from boots, but as long as they're flexible and allow the hoof to expand and contract, it shouldn't hurt.)

As far as the farrier goes - have him keep her heel DOWN on the ground, and round off her toe for a good breakover. This will fix the white line disease. What's causing that is her toe is too long and the only thing that can "stretch" when she walks is those tissues...the longer her toe gets, the more it's gonna pull... so the toe has got to come BACK. Think of it this way - you have short fingernails - "walk" them across your desk. Feels fine. Now, if you have LONG fingernails (which are essentially the same setup as a hoof as far as connections go)... do the same thing and "walk" them across your desk. There's pulling going on with the tissue connecting the nail to your finger. Same deal - only she's got all her weight on them.

If you can keep her heels down and keep her moving, the tissues in her hoof WILL regrow and reconnect to the coffin bone, rotating it back to where it needs to be, because the whole hoof is going to be functioning and anatomically correct.

[judmor]

Tonkasmum, if you're not a vet you really should consider becoming one. You're smart and you have a lot of common sense, which is more than I can say about some of the vets I've taken my cats to. You give excellent advice that is easy to understand.

[Precious]

wow, tonkasmom, those are some great tips and tricks you got there i'm going to wite them up and start a little book on various horsie tips and tricks. it's great to share some so called unconventional methods of healing n such. and your post was so well worded and so easy for all to understand, i aspplaud you.

Sandy,
keep up the great work you are doing, yer such a great horsie mom and an inspiration to all, love ya darlin!

[Sandyb]

Thank you for your advice tonkasmum. I agree with what you said. But Nugget case is a lil different in ways. She has no abscesses on her feet at all and never has. She has coffin bone rotation. She has been founder and treated for this before. Nugget is 19 yrs old too fat and my baby. I do not have reg shoes on her feet she has soft boots and a cushion insole in them so she can stand with out pain. SHe is out side most of the day and walks I do not keep her up. Nugget can not have grass and grain at the same time. I chose to take her off both until i can get this under control again. She is getting a very good quality of hay she is on loose minerals and i am treating her for white line also.

The X rays friday will tell the farrier what he has to do. We do keep her heels down and her toe cut back. I am taking the blame for her being this way for where i live the farriers are lazy and do not want to help the horse they only want the money, they could care less. That is why i am getting one her from south Carolina.

I DO CARE about my horses I will lay my life down on the line for them they are my life I have spent so much to take away the hurt that i have caused them. I can not make people do what what they do not want to do here they are lazy money grabbing farriers they don't care.

I have never done anything intentional bad to my guys i am also dealing with a invalid husband that has cancer and polio and can not walk. He depends on me also. I am 98 pds 54 yrs old and i am really trying to do for every one here. My heart is breaking is all i do.

Heather Jana please don't be mad but i had to say what i feel. i am not mad it may sound like it but i am not. I am happy there are people that care and want to help me and i will do and am doing everything that has been recommended to me. Tonkasmum you really gave good advice and alot i knew and some i didn't I want to say thank you for it.

But please everyone understand i love my guys as much or more than any one here. I came here to marestare for your help and support and i have been well recieved. My pain that i am feeling for what i feel i have done to my guys is killing me i have to live with this as it is.

Thanks every one.

Sandy

[tonkasmum]

Well... The place I had boarded before had a bad reputation - the old farmowners hadn't paid some vet bills, and then some boarders didn't follow directions and had to have their horses put down for it (which is seriously insulting to a poor vet, he had worked so hard to help)... so when I moved mine there, I found that we didn't have a vet willing to come out! If I had a problem then, I had to just call them and talk to them about it.

Then I moved out of there and am renting a three-stall barn with just my gelding, my friend's mare, and our shared gelding, Sam. (Sam’s a story in himself)

But before I brought Sam home - I wanted to make sure his problems were something I could handle. I have a reliable vet now that we have moved, but I still like to do what I can by myself. I gave her a call, along with a few others and spent about a week or so looking things up, before I decided Sam was something we could tackle.

I felt terrible loading him into a trailer, he could barely pull himself into it and he wobbled so bad I just knew he was gonna fall over. When he came to the farm though, there was a 2-inch wide open space between his buttocks, where his legs should have rubbed together. I have a website here someplace and some pics. (*grumble*) I felt even worse because he would be laying down when I got there – and I’d make him get up and walk around.

First farrier visit we trimmed him way back, he was still so long that in order to relieve weight on his most painful foot, he was leaning on his right front - which was causing that hoof to fold under from the side. The left front had abscessed. Farrier cut it open (because it was close to the sole) and we cleaned and packed it... I cleaned it out every other day and soaked it for about ten minutes, then re-covered it. Next farrier visit I had to tell the farrier where the abscess had been, because it was gone.

And the feed I plugged (which I don't usually do)... knocks my socks off. It's a little more pricey, but you end up feeding half as much. All three horses are on it, a 11-yo Thoroughbred mare, a 21 yo QH gelding, and the 12 yo Saddlebred. Nutrena actually sent people out to the farm to document how well it's working for our three... especially Sam.

But I feel there are very few problems that are impossible to solve - sometimes the best way to solve them is to look at it from a different point of view. I grew up near a barn with 18 horses... and usually about 10 or so owners... so any question I had, I got about 10 different answers to! It was great.

Just remember - with horses... there are no dumb questions... I’ve learned a LOT of “tricks” just by asking!

[tonkasmum]

Sandy: No hun... I can tell... that little one's the world to you. Every case is different. And sometimes things go wrong and we can't tell why. You're doing the very best you can - especially in the farrier department. Some of them - they're nothing short of aggravating! Luckily, I found one I like.

But you've got some pretty flippin' bad cards stacked against you... you've definitely got my kudos. The people around you and the "kids" you love couldn't ask for someone more devoted.

[Sandyb]

Thanks so much its nothing but here right now. Tonkasmum . It is very hard but i am dealing with it. My money is tight as every one elses and i will find a way to keep going forward. Nugget and nikki and all the rest have a good vet she loves my guys.



Sandy

And i am sorry if i sounded rude i don't mean to be i am just so disheartened right now.