planning 2008 foals - input welcome!

[Steph @ Elements]

Ok folks... With the next breeding season fast approaching here, we are trying to plan the 2008 foals and would certainly welcome any input! Critiques are welcome, suggestions, etc. The MAIN purpose of the breeding program is to produce black sabino Arabian foals to sell. However, we also have to think to the future about what lines we know cross well and what foals we might want to produce to KEEP in the program. I know many of you have your own herds to plan, but for those who don't, maybe you would have the time to help us figure this all out? I will list the stallions and mares along with their genetic profiles and comments...

Stallions:

• Pandemonium River - (eeAA) chestnut sabino - would LOVE to have a daughter or two who is Aa to cross with Aatlas someday
  
• Berry Khool Breeze - (EEaa) black with chrome, will eventually keep a daughter or two to cross with Aatlas, but no rush
  
• Windsong Firefrost - (eeAA) chestnut sabino - will eventually keep a couple daughters that are Aa to cross with Breeze, but mostly will sell his foals for now
  

Mares:

• Swiss Darq Adagio - (EeAa) bay minimal sabino
  
• Misfer Ash Mesmer - (Eeaa) black minimal sabino
  
• HAAP Blue Lace - (EeAa) bay moderate sabino
  
• HAAP Tabithe - (EeAa) bay (has produce sabino)
  
• Wasama Toshina - (eeAa) chestnut minimal sabino
  
• ASA Soaran Dove - (E?aa) black (new)
  
• RR Dancing Angel - (E?A?) bay (new)
  
• LF Ebony Magic - (Eeaa) black (has produced sabino)
  
• HAAP Niki - (EeAA) bay moderate sabino
  
• HAAP Easter Liliy - (EeAa) bay moderate sabino
  
• Windsong Darq Myst - (EeAa) bay moderate sabino
  

You can see these guys all on one page at www.elementsarabians.com/foals08.html to give you a better idea... Each photo or underlined name will take you to a page with more pictures, pedigree, and links for the foals (if any) they have already produced. We have some ideas and such, but thought it might be fun to get input from people outside the breeding program. Sometimes a stranger can see better than what those too close to the issue are able to see! ;D

Thanks!

[h2opony]

Windsong...

I can post this info for you on a board with a bunch of color genetic experts and I am sure that they can come up with crosses the will most likely produce black, and they can tell you if the foals will carry the frame, sabino, and splash genes as well. If this is something you would like me to do. Please just let me know.

Some of them are even color geneticists for a living! Planning foals is fun! Color is always the most exciting and interesting!

[Steph @ Elements]

Actually, I KNOW which produces which) ;D I am also a geneticist/microbiologist. LOL The down-side is that the sabino & splash is not well understood and is clearly governed by different things in some different breeds. There are several laboratories which can test for the "Sabino1" gene quite reliably - but only in TWH! In both Arabians and Clydesdales, the test will always come up with a false negative, even on clearly sabino horses. <sigh> BUT, the gamble is what makes this fun, eh?

Stephanie

[Angie C.]

I am no good at giving ideas for breedings etc... But I really hope River and Lace have a black foal again like Silk ( That filly amazes me every time I look at her pics! ).
I wonder what FireFrosts foals will look like... He had always been one of my favorites from your barn Windsong

Hope you get lots of black foals!
Angie

[Steph @ Elements]

Well, River and Lace can oly have a bay or a chestnut - no black Silk was sired by Kumars Night Legacy, who was sold a few months before she was born. Unfortunately, the new owners gelded him... <sigh> Silk is incredibly special in many ways though and is VERY loved! ;D

[meddywv]

Well, I'm sure whatever you come up with is going to be beautiful! You're horses are lovely!
....that's a lot of help, huh?

[cheri]

Hmmm... I love a challenge! You want Black Sabinos
Well the obvious cross is Berry Khool Breeze x Misfer Ash Mesmer both being black. His "chrome" may not allow her Sabino to show...or the foal may end up showing both it depends on if he's Minimal Splash or another pattern. It of course also depends on if the sabino she shows needs to have two copies of the gene to show or if it can show on one. I've heard a theory where there is Sa1 and the Sabino that shows in Clyds and Arabs is considered to be sa2 and needs to be sa2/sa2.
Soaran Dove and Dancing Angel I would breed to Breeze because both are new and we don't know for sure if they carry chestnut or Angel being A/A(which is going away from the goal)
Darq Myst I would cross with Pandemonium River,Swiss Darq Adagio X Firefrost(My mind see's a beauty ),Tabithe x Firefrost, Easter Liliy x Pandemonium River, Niki x Firefrost, Magic x Farrago(Max), Toshina x Breeze

I hope I made sense (even if only a little.)